Women in Engineering Panel
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Sharon Fiehler: Hello, everyone. I'm Sharon Fiehler, and welcome to ABC to CEO, where we strive to prepare young women for the possibility of becoming a CEO. And today we have some amazing guests with us (our Women In Engineering Panel) which I think is quite fascinating for all women who kind of maybe think about other roles to consider engineering as a role. These women have been extremely successful in what they've done. And I look forward to hearing from each of them about the path they took, and everything that has been important to them to get to where they are. I think you'll find this a fascinating discussion.
We have with us today, Lauren Evans, who's president and founder of Pinyon Environmental, welcome, Lauren. We have Bisa Grant, the CEO of ANCHOR, Bisa, nice to have you on with us. And Susan Angyal, who's the regional CEO of North America for ERM. So, thank you all of you for being here. It's a privilege to be able to talk to you and to see women who have done so many wonderful things with their careers. So, we have some questions we'd like to kind of get started with, but maybe if we could just take one moment to hear from each of you just a little tidbit about your company and what you would like to share with the group before we kind of go into our programs. So, Bisa, you want to start?
Bisa Grant: Thank you, Sharon. ANCHOR is my company, we are a San Francisco Bay Area-based construction and project management and engineering services firm. We've been around for about 20 years. We've worked predominantly in the public sector. And we have a specialty and finding diamonds in the rough. That is women, that is minority and people of color, that is people with disabilities to work with us to service our clients in the best way possible.
Sharon Fiehler: Wonderful, and I know one of the things that I read on your bio that I just found fascinating was you like to do good work with good people. So, it's a wonderful kind of mantra to have.
Bisa Grant: And we live by that.
Sharon Fiehler: That's great. Lauren, what about you? Tell us just a little bit about your company. Just a tidbit.
Lauren Evans: Thank you. Pinyon Environmental, I founded the company 29 years ago, this year. We have about 85 employees located in Denver, primarily. We have an office in Phoenix, and in today's world like everybody else, we have a lot of remote employees now all over the country. So, we offer environmental consulting services to both public and private sector clients. We do everything from remediation of contaminated property to drainage and stormwater and then things like wetlands and threatened endangered species and air and noise and cultural resources, a whole host of other environmental topics.
Sharon Fiehler: Wonderful. Well, and then we've got Susan with us. And, Susan, would you also give us a little bit about what your company does?
Susan Angyal: Sure, thanks, Sharon. It's great to be here. So, ERM has a 50-plus-year history. And we are an environmental and sustainability consultancy. And we are global, we have offices all over the globe. And we're a very purpose-driven company. And our purpose is to shape a sustainable future with the world's leading organizations. And to do that, we sometimes help private sector clients with their strategies around things, like net zero or just sustainable operations. But where we think our real strength is, is reaching into that technical expertise we've developed over those 50 years, and bringing that strategy to life to help solve some of the world's biggest challenges right now, whether it's environment, climate, all of those things. So, it's been a great journey, and we're looking forward to the next 50-plus years.
Sharon Fiehler: Very impressive. You're all very impressive, by the way. So, let's talk a little bit about engineering because I think it's fair to say engineering is still a field where a lot of women, maybe at a younger age don't think about a whole lot. But obviously, the three of you have succeeded in this field. Maybe you can tell our audience a little bit about why engineering is important and vital to businesses. So, Lauren, maybe I can start with you?
Lauren Evans: Yeah, thank you, Sharon, I love this question because in fact, engineering touches everything that anybody touches in their life. Anything you do, or anywhere you go, there's been an engineer involved in making that happen, either the designing the vehicles that you travel in, or the roads that you travel on, or bringing the electricity and power to your house, the water to your house. Engineers touch everything every day. And we like to joke that we're kind of this hidden profession that nobody really knows what we do. But everything in the modern world is touched by us in some way.
Sharon Fiehler: Absolutely. And I think that is true, we don't really think about it a whole lot until you kind of look at how things are built, and how things work and all of it comes back to engineering. So, let's talk about career paths a little. Bisa, why don't we hear from you? How did you get to where you are today? What would you like young women to take away from the career path that you took, that might help them in their own success?
Bisa Grant: Thank you for that question. So, I'm assuming among the panelists, I am the one that's not an engineer, and I did not have a path of a technical profession, so to speak, I entered this field very intentionally at the height of the recession. It was in 2008, I believe, and I came in from the financial angle. So, I am an MBA with a specialty in accounting. And I thought that accounting and engineering were two very stable industries at that time. And so, I came in at a really low pay scale where I was competing against both with an MBA that just-- I never thought I would compete against for a very basic bookkeeping job. But that bookkeeping job was at ANCHOR. So, I literally worked my way from the bottom up.
I found a home at ANCHOR because I thought that the work that the company did was so profound because it was engineering, and it did touch everything. It was such a foundational skill expertise, I think that was so necessary to move our community forward that I wanted to be a part of that. And so, I really sunk my teeth in, I dug my heels in. And I found a way to pursue what was important to me through the lens of an engineering firm. So, my pathway, like I said, was very intentional. But it took a lot of learning, it took a lot of understanding some of those technical terms around what I was doing every day, even on the financial side. I was able to get comfortable being uncomfortable in this space. And that really resonated in my life, and here I am today.
Sharon Fiehler: Very good. I love that, getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. And I actually think that's a great thing to think about for any of us in any field we're in because too often, we think we've got to get perfectly comfortable until we're qualified. But in fact, a lot of times it's that un-comfort level that you need to know that you're going to be taking a step someplace you've never been. So, Susan, let's hear about your path because you did come a little bit more, I guess, engineering kind of path.
Susan Angyal: Sort of. Yeah. Bisa talked about very purposeful, very planned. Mine was probably not as planned. And that might sound surprising. Yes, I do have a degree in engineering, and I've worked in the environmental field since getting that degree. But I also took a big pause in my professional life, I took eight years out of the workforce. And that's something that a lot of people don't know about me but it was a decision I made collaboratively with my husband. At a moment in time we said, "This is probably right for us." And then at another moment in time, we collaboratively decided yes, it's time to jump back in. So, I know that often, that's a tough decision to make. And I'm fortunate that I was able to do that and still continue my career progression.
Actually, even when jumping back in, I moved around a bit. I have a regulatory background, then I went into professional services. But I actually spent a couple of years in a learning and development role, which might sound like a bit of a detour. But it taught me a lot about leadership and the value of investing in a leadership journey for yourself to help you really be the best leader you can be. And then continued on a path really where I was more managing a P&L, and they got larger and larger until I've had the good fortune to serve as the CEO for our North American region. So, maybe a more traditional background, but the path wasn't as straight and narrow as you think.
Sharon Fiehler: Right. And you mentioned P&L in your description there. One of the things that we really try to stress with young women is understanding the importance of being able to manage something with P&L, because in the end, any business is about making sure the profits and hopefully not too many losses that you end up on the good side of that equation. And a lot of people don't understand how important it is to take on P&L responsibility. And, Lauren, I mean, you start your own organization, your own company. So, you had to understand P&L from the beginning, is that a fair statement?
Susan Angyal: Yeah, I think that is a fair statement. Before I started the company, I managed a division at another company, so I had P&L responsibility for that group. And that's, I think, key if you want to start your own company is you really need to understand how everything in a corporate setting works and what drives different groups of people, whether it be the accounting department or the support staff, and to really understand how to bring them all together to be successful as a team. But definitely, you need to understand the business side of the business that you're in.
Sharon Fiehler: Right. And, Bisa, you probably have a similar answer to that because when you're CEO, and it's yours, that's where the buck stops here, I guess. Can you tell us a little bit about your thoughts about women and thinking about understanding P&L and taking responsibility for it?
Bisa Grant: Absolutely. I mentioned working my way up from the bottom. Most recently, prior to acquiring a firm, I was a vice president and I was in charge of all internal operations, supporting the company's growth pretty tremendously over the prior, I guess, about eight years. But a key to that was managing the finances, managing the money, making sure that we were profitable, that our margins were accurate, that we were kind of meeting budgetary goals, that we were really pushing the envelope on how to pursue what it was that we were pursuing, but from a financial narrative. So, it's critical, critical.
Sharon Fiehler: Right. Without a doubt. I mean, most organizations have only certain positions that get to P&L responsibility. And part of our advice to young women, if going on this path to CEO is important to you. Early on in your career, try to get the P&L experience, because those are the jobs that make a big difference as you move up the corporate ladder or your own entrepreneurial ladder, as some of you have done. So, why don't we talk a little bit then about your journey to becoming the CEO? What do you think a few keys were to your success? What would you kind of tell a 25-year-old woman, "Here's something that I learned that helped me and it might help you, too?" So, Susan, do you have a thought on that?
Susan Angyal: I do. And I think it's a continuation of the conversation we just had. When an opportunity is put in front of you, I think it's really important, of course, to think about it, but don't overthink it. If it sounds like something where you will learn and advance, don't assume that an opportunity will resurface when you feel ready. And I'd also say, don't think you have to be perfect or perfectly qualified for the role. I see that a lot in particular, in women, you were asked, knowing full well that you weren't perfect for the role because nobody is 100% qualified. So, I can't stress enough to just-- really take those on when they happen. I mentioned developing yourself as a leader and taking the time for that reflection, what are foundational beliefs for you, things that you won't waver from as a leader, explore that, and make sure you understand what triggers, stress, anxiety alarm so that you can manage those. And then finally, you've heard from all of us, don't underestimate the power of hard work, because it is, you have to invest the time and it is hard work. It doesn't mean that your life has to be out of balance, but it doesn't come easy. So, be prepared to put in the work that needs to be put in.
Sharon Fiehler: Some good thoughts there. Laura, if I asked you the same question about the keys to success, you came from a different angle because you came more from the entrepreneurial angle. Do you have other things to add to what Susan just said there as far as things to think about for the young women getting started in her career?
Lauren Evans: A few things, and I liked Susan, "know what is important to you and what you stand for." In consulting, we work for clients, and people always ask me why we've been successful? It's not that complicated. We follow the golden rule. Do what you say you're going to do. Treat others like you would like to be treated. And I think some other things, especially in consulting if you go that direction, you have to build a network. And a network of people you trust and who trust you. And I get, like the importance of social media and things like that. But I'm talking about a deeper, richer network of relationships built on trust, not just you know somebody, people you can call on when you need their help because if you start your own company, you're going to have days where you need [chuckles] some help. And I guess finally if you're thinking about starting a company, understand your risk tolerance because there is an element of risk. And that can be as simple as, "I'll give it this long of time, and if it's not to this point, then I can go find another job," there's no shame in that, or just try to make that decision unemotionally. And so have it thought out ahead of time.
Sharon Fiehler: Yeah. Those are all good ideas. Bisa, we've touched on a lot of great things, what might you add to it from your own personal experience to pass on?
Bisa Grant: Yeah, I think, Susan and Lauren hit the nail on the head. There were some keywords there, balance is absolutely one of them. I encounter a lot of peers who have believed that they can't have "all." Meaning, "Oh, I have to sacrifice having a family," or sacrifice, having a spouse or sacrifice being a driven business person. And I am one to contest it that that's not the case. Whereas Susan mentioned that she and her husband agreed to her stepping away. My husband and I agree to him stepping away. It has to be you having a support system along the way too. That's so important, whether it's your partner or your spouse, your siblings, your parents, your children, you really need to ensure that you have that support system to cheer you along the way. And then the third thing that I would say is, remaining coachable, remaining trainable.
What we perceive as the reality of, "Oh, to be a doctor is to be like this," or, "To be a successful leader is to be like that." It's not necessarily what we have in our heads, that the reality is, but we have to remember that it's a progression, it's who you are when you get there. And that's an evolution of where you are today. So, you have to start somewhere. If you wait until your perfect [unintelligible [00:17:20] it just doesn't happen. You have to start today and work to get to where you can be the best version of yourself. That's something I've really stood on is, I'm a work in progress. I'm not perfect, but keep working on it and I'll get there.
Sharon Fiehler: Love all those comments. They're so appropriate. I wish I would have heard so much of that when I was in my 20s, I think it would have made a difference in my career. So, we're almost out of time here, unfortunately, I guess I just like to go around to the three of you to hear one final thought of something maybe we didn't touch upon, that you would like to leave with young women. As far as a little bit of advice. I'll start with you, Susan.
Susan Angyal: Sure. I talked about being part of a purpose-driven organization and I talked about understanding fundamentally what is important to you. And I think that's because all of us want to make an impact, and it's how we make that impact that's important. And so, I look at this role as a real privilege because you can make an impact. But it's not through the actions necessarily that I take some of those to make an impact. But where I feel really privileged to be able to have a role is how I can empower others to do more than they think they can do, to be bigger leaders than they think they can be because it's really, that's how you scale things, that's how your impact is exponential. So having that platform I feel is a real honor. And if you can empower others, it's far more powerful than what you can do alone.
Sharon Fiehler: Great thoughts. I always took the path of thinking, look behind you, people following, and if they are following, maybe you are doing things to make them feel that they also can raise where they are and feel better about themselves. But if you look behind you and no one's following, you may need to kind of question what is the advice you're giving and where you're taking people. So, those are great thoughts. Bisa, what about you? Any final thoughts you would like to leave our young women who are listening?
Bisa Grant: Yeah, I can sit here and talk all day with you, ladies. I love this so much. I have four daughters. They range in age from 13 years old down to one year old.
Sharon Fiehler: Oh, wow.
Bisa Grant: “Oh, wow” is right.
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Bisa Grant: What I can say is I have a very specific intention to raise female leaders and something I tell my 13-year-old, she's a teenager now and it's a mess. But I tell her all the time because she battles with her 11-year-old sister. She wants to be a leader. To be a leader, it's not just telling somebody what to do or necessarily showing somebody what to do, it's also inspiring them to do the right thing, to do the good thing, to do the good work. And you have to find within yourself what inspires you to be the best version of you, so that you can be that example for others that are coming up behind you. So, that's my daily advice to my daughters. And I hope they're listening. It's a challenge ahead of us. I mean, there's always a challenge ahead of us. Whether I'm 20, 30, 40, I am a beginner in the industry or a CEO, there's always so much to do. There's so much inspiration to get it, and to wake up every day and to be the best version of yourself is a great starting point.
Sharon Fiehler: Wonderful advice. Just wonderful. We will make sure this message gets out to many. Lauren, what about you? Do you have some final thoughts that we could pass on to our listeners here?
Lauren Evans: Yeah, if you don't mind, I'll piggyback on both of you, ladies. So, about leadership, one of the things that I found really helpful is to get involved in outside organizations, like a professional organization or a nonprofit charity because that's a place where you can learn some really good leadership skills in a fairly safe environment. So, that's a really good thing to do early in your career. And then to piggyback off of Susan, one of the great things about the CEO is not just the impact that you can make within your organization. But it gives you a lot of opportunities to make impacts outside the organization because the title does carry that level of respect and interest from others. Whether that'd be again, in the nonprofit, or by serving on boards of other corporations, it can be a pathway to magnifying that impact even beyond your own company.
Sharon Fiehler: ABC to CEO is here because we really do believe being at the top, especially having more women at the top will make a difference in the world that we are because it's a privileged position but it's a position that is earned. And I'm very proud to be in the presence of the three of you who have earned that title. So, congratulations to you all. And I do appreciate the time you took to be on ABC to CEO today and we will hopefully hear more from you maybe as time goes by. So, thank you again and to our audience., thank you for listening. May the possibility of becoming a CEO become real for you.
I want to remind you that ABC to CEO is a nonprofit whose purpose is to mentor the next generation of women leaders. Please check out abctoceo.com to learn more and see how you can help us further this mission. Until next time, I'm Sharon Fiehler. Don't forget to follow us on social media to get daily encouragement and proven tips for success.
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